It may be the only issue that divides vegans, the debate over whether or not honey is vegan. What do you think? Vegans and non-vegans are asked to participate-and pass along to friends! Click ahead to VOTE and see how people are voting…
Add your comments and I’ll post my faves when I post the POLL results.
Honey: Is it Vegan….?
The simplified arguments:
NO HONEY IS NOT VEGAN:
Honey is an animal product. Bees are kept in human-made chambers and forced to live without freedom.
YES HONEY IS VEGAN:
Bees make honey and they are living creatures, but they cannot be compared to animals like cows, fish and birds. The line of ‘vegan’ must be drawn somewhere. What about silk worms and other insects? Should vegans begin fighting for insect rights in all situations? Insects die in the production/farming of fruits and veggies as well.
Please add your comments and arguments in the comments section so we can start a real in depth conversation about this topic.
A few HONEY VEGAN? links:
Dr. Greger, Compassionate Spirit
excerpt:
“The vegan abstention from honey because of concern for insects isn’t consistent; other activities almost universally practiced by vegans kill more insects than bee-keeping. The general public understands this lack of consistency at an intuitive level, and this explains their negative reaction towards our abstention from honey.”
Vegetus.com:
Environmental impact of beekeeping, excerpt:
“Beekeepers claim that more insects die in raising sweetener crops. This is hard to quantify but keep in mind that honeybees live only 15-38 days in the summer, 30-60 days in the fall and 140 days over winter (Winston 55). Bees work themselves to death producing honey. Organic farmers use biological pest control to selectively hold down the populations of pests. Beekeepers also kill off mites that infect their colonies. “
Vegan Society on Bees:
“Queen for a Year or Two
Queen bees are artificially inseminated with sperm obtained from decapitated bees. Queens are systematically slaughtered every two years because over time their egg producing abilities decline so their whole hive becomes unproductive and uneconomic. In Israel they are killed and re-queened every year.
Bees Crushed
When beekeepers manipulate combs many bees are crushed and killed. Hives have smoke puffed into them to calm bees down and make them easier to handle. Special excluders or devices that violate the bees’ space are attached to hives to collect bee products from bees as they enter hives. Bees are separated from their hives by being shaken vigorously or jetted out with powerful streams of air. They may have their legs and wings clipped off. Clipping the wings of queen bees prevents them from swarming (flying off!).
Swarming is the natural way for reproduction, increase and survival of the species, at least in the wild. However, beekeepers are constantly trying to prevent this natural phenomenon and will use artificial pheromones, wing clipping and cage queens to keep their colony under control.
Artificial Feed
Beekeepers feed artificial pollen substitutes and white sugar syrup to colonies, often to replace the honey that has been removed. If these practices are carried out over long periods of time they lower hive productivity and lifespan. Colonies fed on their natural food – honey and pollen – result in larger emerging bees and more vigorous bees.
Pesticides
Beekeepers have become dependent on the use of synthetic pesticides and antibiotics to combat pests, and this has led to problems of toxicological hazards to beekeepers and bees, and risks of honey contamination.”
Leave your comments and I’ll re-post the best ones with the POLL results!
Look silly? I think most of society thinks it is the "rights for insects" supporters who look silly.
Like many ethical decisions, your opinion on this matter will depend on whether you think principle or consequences are the most important thing in ethics.
If principle is more important to you, then you'll adhere to the strict definition and avoid honey. You will not worry about whether omnis consider veganism extremist, difficult, and unreasonable. Your personal commitment is most important, and influencing others to reduce their support of animal industries is less important.
If consequences are what's important, then you won't worry about dogmatic details, but will instead care more about the effects you are having on the rest of society. You will want to be a good ambassador for veganism, and show the world that it is reasonable and easy. Influencing others to reduce their use of animal products is more important than your personal purity.
Still think honey is vegan?
Would you feel OK with stealing a jar of honey from your local health food store?
If not, then why not? Would you find this act of stealing a jar of honey from a health food store to be unethical? If so, why is it OK for this same exact honey to be stolen by a beekeeper from the bees? What makes the act of stealing a jar of honey perfectly acceptable at one point in time, and not acceptable at a later point in time? At what point does the act of stealing honey become "wrong"? If your answer brings up the fact that animals are not privy to the same ethical standards that we afford other humans, then one must also concede that killing and even torturing animals is acceptable as well. Either animals do deserve equal ethical consideration that we afford other humans, or they do not. Declaring that they do deserve the same consideration that we show other humans is the very foundation upon which veganism stands.
Consuming honey while calling yourself a vegan is not only wrong, it just makes you look silly.
One result of bees’ hard work is the pollination of many types of fruit and vegetable crops. Should vegans also stop eating these “commodities derived wholly or in part from animals?”
Also, I think you do need to make a distinction between small, hobbyist beekeepers and the commercial beekeepers that truck their hives across the country to pollinate corporate food. The practices are very different, and for different purposes. (Incidentally, small beekeeping/honey only operations and hobbyists aren’t affected by CCD).
Honey comes from an animal. Vegans dont eat animal products, only plant foods. FACT.
I eat honey but I still call myself Vegan. Honestly, although I do enjoy agave nectar and maple syrup, I wouldn’t go Vegan if I had to give up honey too. I mean I’ve already given up eggs, milk, silk, whey, glycerin, gelatin, meat…what more do you want from me? Can’t I indulge in honey? There’s a company in Wisconsin (local to me) that makes pure honey that is soooooo good. Better than the honey from the dollar store or generic stuff. Also, it’s in too many otherwise nondairy things like certain breads and the cakes that Soul Vegetarian makes.
Plus, I like to use honey to wash my face, which I think is better than slathering chemicals all over my face.
If I’m cooking for other vegans, I don’t use honey. But I’m not lacto-ovo or pescatarian. If I tell someone I’m vegetarian, they might still serve me cheese or eggs. Practically it’s just easier to say “I’m Vegan.” I guess I’m just a cruel cruel person because I really don’t care enough about the plight of bees.
Honey, the product of independent creatures working for themselves to support their colony and young. Is it vegan? Not a chance. By taking the honey we are exploiting those creatures and stealing from them. It’s that simple.
Also, it’s icky. Bee sick and all that. If you’re not eating eggs, you definitely shouldn’t be eating honey.
Interesting poll, thank you.
I agree with those who have said that vegans avoid honey by definition. It’s an animal product and vegans avoid using animal products as far as possible.
I would like to add that modern beekeeping practices have been tentatively linked to the large-scale death of bees as discussed on the Wikipedia entry on “Colony Collapse Disorder”.
We need bees to pollinate crops, but we don’t need to eat honey. So leaving bees alone makes sense, even from a completely anthropocentric viewpoint.
Regarding the point about silk: with the possible exception of “wild silk” vegans avoid that too, again by definition. Obviously vegans are responsible for unavoidable deaths of insects, e.g. when crops are harvested, or in a them-and-us situation where they can’t get rid of harmful insects from their home by other means. But that’s different from choosing to farm and kill them deliberately. (Anyway, who wants to wear boiled insects? :p )
The simplest reason why honey isn’t vegan is by definition. The term vegan was coined by Donald Watson in 1944 and was defined as follows:
“Veganism is a way of living which excludes all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, the animal kingdom, and includes a reverence for life. It applies to the practice of living on the products of the plant kingdom to the exclusion of flesh, fish, fowl, eggs, honey, animal milk and its derivatives, and encourages the use of alternatives for all commodities derived wholly or in part from animals.”
Stepaniak, J.”The Name Game: Coming to Terms.” http://www.vegsource.com/jo/essays/namegame.htm.
I am not going to answer the poll question because it is complete nonsense. Vegan is simply a made up word and the meanings of words evolve over time according to consensus. If the consensus has decided that honey is a ‘vegan’ food then I am no longer a vegan. Time for a new word to describe a diet that excludes ALL animal products (yes, bees are animals) – how about a Plabadi diet? From PLant BAsed DIet. I hereby declare myself a Plabadian, and please don’t hijack this word ‘cos it’s mine – I made it up so I’ll decide what it means.
is it vegan? technically no. is that at all logical? not really.
wild honey doesn’t harm any animals. i don’t see what the big deal is. i’m a vegetarian for religious reasons and i drink milk from small dairies and eat wild honey. if it doesn’t harm any animals, why deprive yourself?
If you consciously eat honey, you are not vegan. End of story. It doesn’t matter how well beekeepers treat their bees, how long bees live naturally, how many bees die from other means, etc. It’s not like it’s hard to just avoid consuming it!
Regardless of why you purchase/use honey, it is an animal product. Therefore, it is not vegan. I don’t know why this is so hard for some people to figure out – an animal is an animal is an animal. Just because it’s an insect and not a cuddly piglet doesn’t mean it’s not an animal. Sorry – sometimes a lifestyle choice is hard but if you consume an animal product you’re not a vegan. Deal with it.
I’m vegan. I don’t consider honey to be vegan. But, I eat honey sometimes. So, am I not vegan, or is honey vegan? I don’t know. And, you know what, I don’t really care. I try to reduce my harm to other beings and the Earth; petty disagreements about the dogma of any ideology do not interest me. But, have fun, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a little mental sparring amongst friends.
For the argument that bees are somehow mistreated by not being allowed to ‘fly free’ I offer this: bees are tied to wherever their nest is. They do not flit about and have raves every evening at different nests. Therefore orchestrating where they could set up a nest (it is ultimately their choice as we have seen with the recent accounts of bees abandoning their nests) is not cruel. If you are abstaining from honey (which is perfectly acceptable) are you also abstaining from farms that keep bees for pollination purposes? Wouldn’t that also fall into the category of mistreating animals? Without pollinators there are not plants therefore, if you are against eating honey because of the mistreatment of animals are you also against farmers that release bees or keep their own hives? It is a tricky line to tread.
How hard can it be?
Honey is a product from bees – even if you “treat bees nicely” – how in the devil’s arse are you “nice” to the bees if you blow smoke at them – rip of a honeycomb, crush it (probably some bees or larvae left init)…
And yes, I know bees are insects – I ate insects for a long time too instead of fluffy and cute animals.
Most honeys does contain eggderivativs and casein (not listed on the jar).. NO honey isn’t vegan. It’s an animal produced product.
If you eat honey, then your not a vegan (veganism = to the furthest extent limit exploitation of ALL animals – hence, honey isn’t vegan).
Your just as the ovo-veggies calling them self vegeterians
I’m vegan, and I eat raw honey. Agave nectar is a poor substitute, containing toxic levels of fructose. Fructose is bad news. There are numerous studies confirming its negative impact on human health/metabolism.
Honestly, how many vegans do you know who care about the well being of arthropods? I don’t lose sleep at night over tenting our house for termites. It’s as simple as that. We’re vegan because we’re compassionate about animals who can suffer, not because of some silly hardline philosophical argument, or “the priciple of the thing.” People who get judgmental about the honey issue are not living in the real world. No one is going to understand, or care, about a new “invented term” for vegans who eat honey.
I love honey, but don’t eat it very often. Back when I first became vegan, I googled honey to find out what atrocities were being inflicted on the poor bees. Couldn’t find much, except that they were being fed sugar water to replace their honey. I also read that bee keepers are quite fond of their bees, and take very good care of them. They (the bees) are also free to roam wherever, and return to their comb. In the spirit of veganism… maybe we could make an exception??
huh. It’s funny how my view has changed a few times over this whole discussion! I originally voted as a non-vegan saying honey is not vegan. Then with the realization that it is possible honey is not considered an animal product I responded with my comment above. But now realizing that I was ignorant concerning the definition of vegan (saying that honey is not vegan) I’ve once again switched back to thinking it’s decidedly non-vegan. However I’m also non-vegan (though I am interested in a future of veganism) so I don’t know how much authority I have on this topic!
Technically, honey is an animal product, and thus, not Vegan.
My brother does not feel it’s right to eat honey, and therefore when I cook for him I don’t use it. And if I were cooking for a group of Vegans, honey would definitely not appear on my ingredient list.
But what it comes down to is that we all have our own brains and the right to decide whether or not we are OK with something on a case bt case basis. As humans we are often trying to fit ourselves into a box of standards based one what the “collecive” has decided. I know many vegans who don’t eat honey simply because they are told it’s not vegan, but will stomp on a spider without hesitation should one crawl across their bathroom floor.
I for one have no issues with eating honey. I also have no issues dustbusing the colony of flies that seems to magically re-appear in my farmhouse window every spring. Or destroying the mosquito nests that sometimes form in stagnant puddles of water I’ve neglected. Perhaps this means I am not classified as Vegan, but I am OK with that as my diet is a reflection of my morals and not the result of me trying to fit into a certain category.
How about tapping a maple tree? Or does vegan pertain to animals and insects only?
How do vegans feel about it?
[I’m not being a jerk, I’m really asking.]
Nope, honey is not vegan! I'm vegan & don't eat it because:
– I'm uncomfortable with the treatment of bees (including artificial insemination and decapitation)
– It's not necessary to human health
– There are loads of great alternatives out there, my favourite is agave nectar
– I believe we shouldn't farm animals or insects no matter how small
– Donald Watson & The Vegan Society (UK) coined the term vegan & it doesn't include eating honey
My two cents!
Well, stated, Tangerine. Honey is an animal product and exploiting bees for honey is not necessary for maintaining populations. Even so, this is still exploitation, you are stealing this honey from the bee. Do not make the mistake in thinking honey is a waste product or that these insects are not killed by the masses for their energy product.
It doesn’t really matter whether or not people want to believe honey is vegan or not.
The word “vegan” has a set definition by an actual non-profit agency. They invented the word.
By definition, Honey is not vegan. If you consume honey you are a non-vegan, sorry. I understand there are concerns about the sentience of insects like bees, so I would encourage a new word to be made to describe such people rather than falsely carrying the title of “vegan.”
I’m sorry, but you can argue with me until your face turns blue. It doesn’t really even matter what I think anyway, there is a set definition. Vegan is not a slang term and I am personally offended by individuals who consume honey yet refer to themselves as vegan.
anon, yeah it does make us foolish, b/c honey is the easiest thing to give up out of all animal products- and yet some won’t for some reason. but you could really make that argument you just made about ANY animal product. If you’re OTHERWISE vegan, why not consume only cheese? Or only chicken wings… you are still doing MORE than most ppl. (I’d be happy if more meat eaters would at least make THAT commitment) But wouldnt you also be creating more confusion and making it harder for other vegans who dont consume cheese or chicken wings? But whats the issue here, eating only cheese/chicken wings out of all animal products (which might be the best what some ppl can do- or at least they think they can) OR labeling yourself vegan while doing so?
I agree, we should all buy (veganic) organic when possible- it’s NOT possible nor practical all the time though- not at the moment. On the other hand avoiding animal products such as honey must be the easiest thing in the world. Let’s do whats possible, isnt that what veganism is about? We live in a non-vegan world- and we’re big clumsy, imperfect creatures. Stepping on a bug unintentionally, or not having the means to buy organic cotton clothes- doesnt justify all other areas of animal exploitation where we easily CAN make a choice.
Cinnamon: beekeepers are not in the business of supporting nor maintaining bee population. In theory you could build an artificial beehive if you really were worried about the bee population and then let the bees take care of the rest. But in practice the beekeepers exploit these creatures and take whats naturally theirs- honey – and then feed them sugared water. If I were a bee I’d be pissed-
Lastly, pointing out unavoidable inconsistencies in the vegan lifestyle, doesn’t answer these questions: Why do humans consume honey? Who needs honey more, humans or the bees?
/peace
How can anyone ever eat or buy something non-organic, and then make a big deal out of honey–what hurts animals more? Most vegans do eat honey, even though it’s not technically vegan. I agree with Gregor–the honey issue makes us look foolish. There are good reasons to not eat honey but it should not be a prerequisite for being vegan if we want a vegan world.
Bees are disappearing at an alarming rate today, and we don’t know why. Without these honey bees the plants we love to eat wouldn’t be able to survive either! So I support local honey, which supports maintaining our bee populations and our local agriculture!
Tough one! I think I’d have to agree with tangerine, though. In my opinion, if one chooses to be vegan in their diet, they are also making the choice to be vegan in practice and spirit. I would say no, that honey is not vegan.
On another note, why are bees going extinct exactly? http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,331532,00.html
This is unfortunate!
useful site: http://www.vegetus.org/honey/honey.htm
Jayne: i sure wouldnt kill a cockroach intentionally. and i dont find the bees all that cute, even though they are fascinating creatures, but so are all insects. My not eating honey or any other animal product has nothing to do with the cuteness or icky factor.
Bottom line is: honey is an animal product, produced by the bees for the bees. Humans have no place in this equation. It is an animal product, just as much as milk and eggs are.
Additionally honey isnt vegan according to Vegan Society, that coined the term. I might sound picky, but hey I cant really tell anyone what to eat, but the sensible thing would be not to label ourselves something we're not. I dont understand why some fish & chicken eating ppl call themselves vegetarians. Or why some so called vegans eat eggs… It's really making it more difficult for the rest of us when ordering veg*n in a restaurant. So please lets use proper labels or for those of you who find these labels inadequate- feel free to come up with new ones!
Peace
Based on the face that bees are insects, I don’t think being honey-less is a rule within veganism, but it’s more a matter of choice. Systematic harm towards bees for their honey can remind vegans of other issues that they are passionate about. Perhaps abstaining from honey is a choice based on knowledge about the industry rather than relating directly to veganism …?
I love bugs, but I love bees and ladybugs more than I like Cockroaches. So where does the line get drawn? It there favoritism towards bees? I think so. I doubt a honey-less vegan would allow yucky bugs to roam free in their home even if they have a bee hive happily in their yard. The line has to be drawn. I;m not going to go freeing the lettuce from a salad bar because it is a living plant. Vegans can eat honey. Says me.
I agree with VeganWoman. I really don’t consider honey an animal product. Yes, I know – bees are insects – insects are animals but I never consider honey as being non-vegan. That’s my opinion.
I love this debate. Some have told me I am not a vegan because I occasionally use honey! I buy only raw honey from a local producer that is super nice to the bees. I have needed honey for the antibacterial properties while I lose weight and heal my body. Sorry anti honey vegans 🙁